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"Don't Believe the Hype...Believe The Results"
NEW: We now have the audio from the talk that Chuck D and DJ Johnny Juice gave at Remix Hotel in June 2004. The topic of the hour long discussion is Bringing Back Soul to Hip Hop. Listen to the audio. NOTE: This is an uncensored discussion that contains explicit language. CW: Juice, you’ve been with Public Enemy for a long time, how did you get your start with them? Juice: I was initially picked by Chuck to be a part of group called the 'Kings of Pressure" in a DJ/Rap contest they held at their rehearsal studio in 1987. My crew "The Bumrush Crew" was to attend the battle. It consisted of Krush B MC (later known as Charlie Brown of L.O.N.S.) and MC Chill O Ski (later known as Busta Rhymes.) Busta didn't show up but Brown and I entered the battle. I won the DJ portion of the battle and was offered the opportunity of working with Eric Sadler, Keith Shocklee, Hank Shocklee, and Public Enemy on Yo! Bumrush the Show. CW: How Do You Sell Soul To A Soul-less People Who Sold Their Soul sounds like it is shaping into an amazing album, would you mind telling us a little bit about what went into making this record? Chuck: With this record, I wrote the titles for the tracks, then picked from a series of submitted tracks from my producers. I then figured out where and how I applied the titles to the submitted tracks. Juice: On my end, the integration of live musical elements were key in defining this albums' sound. I picked the band MY WORLD as musical collaborators because of their diverse sound. The "looped beat" trend in contemporary rap was abandoned (actually as far as Public Enemy is concerned, it was never really part of our repertoire.) There is more arrangement in the songs and we didn't always stick with the 4/4 meter. There is even a Blues-based song (12 bar blues harmonic progression) that Chuck does a spoken word piece over called What It Is. I personally tried to bring that indefinable element called "SOUL" to the table. It is the glue to this album and in my very humble opinion has been missing from a lot of contemporary music today. There's some Fender Rhodes, Hammond B3, live Sax (thanks to the amazing Jeff Sheloff), live conga and bongo (played by me,) live guitars by Chris Munger, funky bass by John Montalbano and some incredible drumming by MY WORLD drummer Chris Scherer. We wanted an organic sound. Hopefully we have achieved that. CW: How does Cakewalk software factor into your workflow and in particular how did it help you with How Do You Sell Soul… Juice: Well, all my songs start out with a sequenced beat. I then go about arranging it into a song. This is where SONAR shines. It's very easy to move around parts and try different arrangements and get some idea of where I want the song to go. On If I Gave You Soul, What Would You Do With It?, I decided that a bridge was needed and chorus had to be removed and everything after a certain bar had to be moved up 8 bars. That would have been impossible to do back in 1988 on a Studer 2" reel! The ability to edit and rearrange audio on the fly is great. Of course experimenting with effects and inserts is handy and helps to shape the sound in the composition phase. CW: I was chatting with Sharkey, another Cakewalk artist, while preparing for this interview, and he wanted to know the following: how is your system of production different today, versus during the Fear of a Black Planet Sessions? Juice: Chuck can speak to that more but I will point out that the multi-layered sampled sound is almost if not impossible to replicate today. First off, sample clearance laws make it a virtual impossibility and also the astronomical price of making an album of that type would deter anyone from attempting it. Chuck: Yeah, the Fear of a Black Planet sessions were spliced trackings from previous recordings… It’s not impossible to repeat those techniques, but rather expensive. Juice: We now are attempting almost the exact opposite of the "FEAR" concept. Instead of an incredible wall of overwhelming sound, we have attempted to "strip down" our sound and come extra-funky and "soulful." More organic and less "programmed," if you will. There are more "spaces" in the vocal arrangements. Some classic "stop-and-go" arrangements. This album is more of a throwback to the old school production approach but now done with very modern production equipment and techniques. CW: What made you decide to start using SONAR, and what are your favorite things about working with it? Juice: Well I'm a PC guy, and Chuck is more of a Mac dude, but we chose to do our recording on the PC. I have used both throughout my career and have always felt more at home on a PC. I initially had a dual Mac Setup running a competing product in the studio, but I ran Cakewalk Pro Audio at home. When SONAR was released, it was pretty much what I was waiting for. I have always appreciated the uncluttered interface of Pro Audio but its audio prowess needed a little boost in power. SONAR solved those problems. Now there isn't anything that I can't do in SONAR. I have all of my producers working with it. It makes transferring files back and forth a snap. Also, I use the OMFI export to send my songs to a few other collaborators who use other audio programs. The program is intuitive, very easy to look at, and the track looping and enable stretch technology are bananas. CW: Juice, what are you liking for hardware these days? Any favorite control surfaces? How about plug ins?
I haven't really delved too far into soft synths yet. I've experimented with VSampler, which is awesome, and Project5, but for this album I really relied on real, tangible instruments. We have a Fender Rhodes, quite a few synths (Korg Triton, Kurzweil K2000, Yamaha Motif) an MPC2000, a Sonor Drumset, Bongos and Congas from LP, not to mention the guitars and basses our musicians bring through…some great stuff. For the next Public Enemy album New Whirl Odor we will be using some softsynths because it will have more of a "futuristic apocalyptic" sound. CW: We hear Flav has been spending quite a bit of time in Hollywood lately, is he still actively involved in the group? Chuck: Indeed, as a matter of fact, he is putting time in visually, because these days it’s as important as the audio presentation. Flav is multi-dimensional, visually as well as audibly…myself, I flip flop his attributes…in so many ways he expands the profile of the group. CW: and is it true that he plays 11 instruments and was classically trained? Chuck: Not classically trained, but trained by ear. It’s a joy to perform live with Public Enemy and see Flav actually play these instruments on stage. Juice: Yes, he can play MORE than 11 instruments it's all by ear. Incredible. CW: Do you have any tips, techniques or advice you would like to share with musicians who want to make music on the PC? Juice: Yes, try to be original. The tools we are all using are pretty much the same so it's up to us to try to find different ways of using them. I could say things like "make sure you buy a powerful computer" and things like that but those are obvious statements that one can find in any major music publication. Read...read...read...and then read some more. Learn your craft. Study it. Perfect it. There's nothing worse than a "so called professional" who doesn't know what he or she is doing. In this business, you either fly or die depending on your reputation and your knowledge base. CW: Chuck, we’ve been really impressed with your show on Air America Radio. How do you manage to balance Public Enemy, your radio gig, 50 lecture appearances a year, a publishing company, and a family? Chuck: It’s a life and I always try to break 24 hours into minutes and seconds, as well as collecting moments. At the same time, trying not to break commitments and understanding that the quantity of time may not be as important as the quality of it. That’s with a lot of the things I do …then you have to dedicate yourself, soul and mindstate to the sound of silence. CW: Chuck, we read somewhere that your parents were politically active when you were a child. Are they still involved politically? Have you worked together with them on any political or social issues recently? Chuck: My parents commentary within family discussions have been a basis for my expression of opinion, wherever I have ventured to…what I was taught by them is that politics are your surroundings. CW: Juice, we’ve heard that you are scoring a documentary film on the life of Mumia Abu Jamal. Could you tell us a little about that project? Juice: I'm working on a documentary called The Voice of the Voiceless, directed by Tania Cuervas-Martinez. The documentary was done a while ago but it's being re-scored and re-edited. A lot of the sound is grainy as the director didn't really have the resources to use high-end sound capturing techniques…especially the jail interview scenes (behind the glass) and such. I am cleaning up the audio and providing scores to accentuate the tension felt in the scenes. It's a challenge that I enjoy. CW: We know that Public Enemy (and you Chuck individually) have done a lot on their own to help people in need, but unfortunately, there doesn’t seem to be much of an altruistic spirit in pop music or R&B these days. We’re curious if you have any advice on how artists can get other artists and the public involved and interested in helping out those in need, especially the newer young artists. Juice: Take it away Chuck. Chuck: The basic needs in society are food, shelter, and clothing…it’s important for people to have equal opportunity in education, economics, enforcement and understanding the law to clothe, feed, and shelter peeps. Artists feed the minds and souls, or they should. What I like to do is propose an outlet to artists and provide a forum for distribution and understanding of what the music industry is all about. Understanding where one is at in their artistry lessens the pressures of forsaking their beliefs and integrity for commerce only. CW: Chuck, from the title, we can guess the topic of your lectures “Rap, Race, Reality, and Technology” Could you summarize what some of the key points are that you discuss in these talks? Chuck: The MTV-BET generations, I guess that’s Viacom to some…has been a lightning rod and a transmitter of influence…and often the topics have been hurled at folks in the music without explanation of what these newly invited cultural phenomenon are and what spawns them. CW: Care to comment on the state of hip hop today? Chuck: The art form has submitted itself to the contractual obligations of corporations, and is not contributing to the building process of people. Thus the balance has been thrown askew by shoddy selection and programming of the genre to the public. The artists have been strangleheld into doing a one-dimensional song and dance to merely raise funds. The opportunity has been there equally to expose and expand necessary niches, but the cultural ecosystem has to be maintained so that great new innovations in the art form can influence society from many aspects. Juice: It's in a state of emergency. The misinformation and negative stereotypes are destroying our younger generation. I don't have a problem with people making a living off of the culture but there has to be some balance to it. There is no creativity. There is no connection with our diverse musical past. It has become a vicious cycle of recycling the recycled. When will this stop? I don't know, but we're trying to do our part to remain innovative and forward thinking.
CW: Juice, how about your feelings on the future of the music industry? Juice: Hopefully, it will fall under the control of the artisans and out of the executive’s hands. With the advent of downloading music and the resurgence of the live show, the music industry will hopefully go back to being an "Artist driven" business instead of a "Song driven" or "Corporate Drive" business. CW: Seeing that the state of affairs are the way they are today, if you had one piece of advice to impart to someone who was trying to make it today in the music and entertainment industry, what would it be? Juice: Again, learn all you can about the industry. Be it as an intern or through books…whatever. Knowledge is definitely power and you will need all the knowledge you can find to be able to navigate the business. CW: What’s in your CD Player? Chuck: Nothing. I listen to my laptop, I-pod, and Rio MP3 players. There’s 2443 songs right about now. The 10-1 compression of MP3s and their players allow me to carry around the soundtrack of my life. I also have an MP3 playing CD player and it’s cool to burn an MP3 CD of 200 songs. Juice: Willie Colon Lo Mato and La Gran Fuga CW: What’s next on the horizon for you both individually and collectively? Chuck: Individually, furthering and changing the airwaves and breaking down barriers for exposure and distribution. It’s like doing labor two years into the future for the past ten years waiting for some things to catch up and not pass the masses by. In the creative areas: songwriting and recording artists under our label Slamjamz, Public Enemy, DVD expansion, web work, books, lectures, and touring. I think it will be in the best interest for many to follow that blueprint. Juice: Aside from the next Public Enemy album, I will be producing an album for a group that I created that combines the Funk and Soul of the mid to late '60's, the Rock vibes of the '60's (along the lines of Santana and Jimi Hendrix), the Salsa or latin based rhythms of the '60's and '70's (particularly the FANIA record label sound), and some straight up Hip Hop. This group will be a performance oriented group containing live musicians, a turntablist, and lead and backup singers. I will also be producing albums for a slew of other artists from Blues to Heavy Metal. CW: In closing, do you have a personal philosophy about music? Chuck: Music is inspiration and entertainment, yet at its best, it can be a road for souls to fuel up on…and soul is the burning energy of the living. The direction of music heads the masses toward freedom or captivity, it may feed a few people physically, but when done un-egotistically, it can feed masses present and future. Juice: Music should make you feel something. It should elicit emotions in its listeners. It is one of the most powerful things in the world. It can make you laugh. It can make you cry. It can control your mind. Music is life. Visit The Public Enemy Website
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